Work Session Minutes of the Town of Cary, NC

Cary-Chatham Joint Land Use Plan and the Southwest Area

July 10, 2007

Cary Town Hall, Room 10035, 316 N. Academy St., Cary

Present:  Mayor Ernie McAlister, Council Members Marla Dorrel, Julie Robison and Nels Roseland

Council Member Jennifer Robinson arrived late and her arrival is noted in the minutes.

Council Member Erv Portman participated by telephone

Absent: Mayor Pro Tem Jack Smith

Mayor McAlister called the meeting to order at 4:03 p.m.

Chatham-Cary Joint Land Use Plan

(Staff’s PowerPoint Presentation is attached to and incorporated herein by reference as Exhibit A). 

Scott Ramage of the Planning Department provided background information to bring council up-to-date on the joint land use plan.  He said that the project team consists of staff from several Chatham County departments working with staff from several Town departments.  Together they created a composite plan based on two prior community meetings.  He said that subsequent to the joint meeting in February the Chatham Board of Commissioners informally held a public hearing for interested citizens in April 2007.  The Chatham board recommended that the entire 18,000 acres of the study area be designated with minimum lot sizes of five acres.  Mr. Ramage said that the recommendation was in contrast to the density transition recommended by the joint staff plan, which starts within the first half mile of the lake at 10 acre lot average size, with the next half mile from the lake going into 5 acre lot size, then to a zone of 1 acre lots, and then by the time you get to the Wake County line there are 2 units per acre

Mrs. Robinson arrived at 4:05 p.m.

Mr. Ramage said that there was a series of density transitions which lead into the joint staff plan that were not reflected in the Chatham County Board’s response.  He said they are in agreement with about 60 percent of the entire area and disagreement with about 40 percent of the study area.  He said that the joint staff teams looked at a variety of considerations based on two prior public meetings, including input from the North Carolina Wild Life Resources Commission (WRC), which ultimately led to the final proposed design, with ultra low densities near the lake and more suburban densities near the county line.  The WRC thought that the density transition is best served being very abrupt rather than slow and gradual. 

Mrs. Robison asked if the land use description barren is a temporary state.  Engineering Director Tim Bailey replied that it is a denuded area with no best management practices (BMPS).  He said there is a lot of loading from the runoff and the soil, and sediment option demand is high from runoff, especially from highly clay soils.  That is usually a temporary state until some type of vegetation is established.

Mrs. Robinson asked what TP meant.  Mr. Ramage said it is the total phosphorus.  He explained that nitrogen and phosphorus are the two limiting elements in the lake.  He said that too much of either leads to algae blooms and nitrification, especially in the northern part on the New Hope basin.  He said that two-thirds of the study area discharges into the northern region where a more stringent state standard is being proposed.

Mr. Roseland asked how the state’s contemplating a set of Jordan Lake rules impacts Cary in terms of protection and Cary ’s development patterns.  Mr. Bailey said staff has reviewed the rules, and will provide comment on those rules at an upcoming public hearing in Carrboro.  He said that the target nitrogen load is 2.2 pounds per acre per year.  A road crop is six times the target loading without BMPs.  He said that a storm water strategy would be needed if Chatham County were to implement 5 acre lots.  They would need to limit the impervious area and maybe target BMPs to be added on some facilities to meet the 2.2 pounds per acre per year nitrogen target.  He said by controlling nitrogen you can generally control almost all of the other pollutants.

Mr. Roseland asked if the joint staff plan for the area is on track to meet the proposed rules and whether they would be able to develop something fitting within those parameters.  Mr. Bailey said that Cary has BMPs and riparian buffers.  He said they have easily met the 3.6 pounds per acre per year nitrogen target with the urban plans for Cary ; they would have to do a little more to meet the proposed rules.  He said that Chatham County is somewhat new in the water quality area.  They would be affected by the rules if adopted by the state for the Jordan basin. 

Mr. Ramage said that staff is looking for direction on how to proceed and on how to form a response to Chatham County .  Mayor McAlister said that council needs to consider whether to continue in the process.  He asked if Chatham County wants to talk more about the areas in disagreement.  Mr. Ramage responded that staff hasn’t had any direct communication with their board; the information was passed on by their planning director. 

Mayor McAlister said they are obligated to stay in the process with Chatham County and should pursue with the county commissioners those areas where there is disagreement

Mayor McAlister asked about the Chatham County public hearing and if there was more opposition to the down zoning.  Mr. Ramage said that two Town staff members attended the meeting and the majority of the comments were in favor of very low density and keeping Cary in Wake County ; about 10 percent of the comments were concerns about subdivision.  He said there was very positive comment expressed by the Division of Wildlife Resources, Sierra Club, and Friends of the Hawes River Assembly for the environmental aspects of the joint plan. 

Mrs. Robison asked about the state requirements for the nitrogen load.  Mr. Ramage said part of the plan recommended environmental standards and the project wanted to ensure that they were meeting the lake’s targets.  Mr. Bailey added that the joint plan developed by staff for the low density areas had impervious caps and some other things designed to deal with water quality.  He said that one concern of the Chatham County staff was that they didn’t have a storm water program to inspect the BMPs, look at the upcoming developments, and determine whether they met requirements.  He said there was some staff support for the higher density to be under Cary ’s jurisdiction and, therefore, it would have Cary ’s current standards for riparian buffers and BMPs.  He said there is a good storm water plan developed in the joint plan version.  Mr. Ulma added that the state has been working on the new rules for the lake for a couple of years and staff tried to anticipate that in the joint plan.   

Mr. Roseland said that the 2.2-2.5 nitrogen requirements are important and council should take the position to sort out the water quality and ensure compliance with the state. 

Mr. Ulma suggested that staff formulate a response back to Chatham County that for the upcoming joint work session Council would like to focus on the 40 percent of the area remaining in dispute. 

Mrs. Robinson said the message from council should be that Cary is there to help achieve the water quality standards and protect the water source.  Ms. Dorrel said that there could be value in framing the discussion in terms of water quality and not land use.  She said it may help to move away from inaccurate assumptions.  Mr. Portman said that the Town’s real interest is in water quality and that should be their focus.  He said that will allow Chatham County to work through their issues.

Green Level Historic District

(Staff’s PowerPoint Presentation is attached to and incorporated herein by reference as Exhibit B)

Mr. Ramage introduced consultants Jennifer Martin of Edwards Pitman Environmental, Inc. and Roger Henderson of Kimley Horn who have been working with staff on the Green Level Historic District. 

Mr. Ramage said that the original southwest area plan and the Town’s transportation plan recommended a four lane median divided thoroughfare taking Green Level Church Road and bypassing it to the east side of the historic district.  He said that a subdivision applicant started exploring whether they could get crossing permits and questions came up as to whether that road was technically feasible—the creek in question is the Batchelor Branch.  Mr. Ramage said that Kimley Horn’s professional assessment was that they probably would not be able to obtain the permits needed to cross the stream.  He said that the crossing could be 600 feet or more, would include a broad bridge and be a very expensive. He said that the state and federal government would not look kindly at the impacts. given that Green Level Church Road is an alternative on the high ground.

Mr. Ramage said Edwards Pitman Environmental developed for the Town an evaluation of the Green Level historic district and tried to develop design guidelines.  The nomination for the historic district focuses on this as a rural district. Wake county staff prepared the nomination study in 2001 and council endorsed the application.  He said that the Town put $4,000 towards a total budget of about $18,000 for listing Carpenter and Green Level.  Ms. Martin added that the Green Level district derives its significance as a group of buildings.  Any carving away would be detrimental to its overall integrity. 

Mr. Ramage said that part of the area is zoned straight general commercial.  Also, it may not be possible to acquire some of the property because they don’t know if the sellers are willing.  Doug McRainey of the Parks, Recreation and Cultural Resources Department added that the priority would be the southern parcel, which is the Mills property.  He said that staff has had discussions with Mr. Mills and there is a lack of willingness at this time to sell.  Mr. McRainey said that the land owner for the northern parcel contacted the Town for potential acquisition.  With both parcels there are substantial sensitive resources with the Batchelor Branch.  The Town has a $350,000 grant that can be used toward the water quality aspects for the properties. 

Mrs. Robinson asked about the buffers along the road near the Mills property.  Mr. Ramage said that their buffer is between 50-80 feet.  Mr. Bailey added that the area is preserved.

Mr. Roseland asked if the Town has been given any legal authority.  Mr. Ulma said that the Town has authority to do an historic zoning, but it’s never been pursued.  We also have new authority for demolition but staff needs to draft ordinance language which will go into the next available LDO round. 

Mr. Ramage said that there are several thoroughfare options that depend on what council wants to do with the district.  The first widens the exiting road to four lanes. There are a couple of options where you can do the most contact sensitive widening possible which would tie most directly into the thoroughfare coming north from Apex.  From the south it connects in the Apex thoroughfare plan down to Highway 64.  He said that staff recommends if doing a widening that an asymmetric contact sensitive widening is done which would take it further away from the church.  Another option if they want to preserve some of the view shed is with a two way pair—take the existing Green Level Church Road and stripe it through with two lane southbound travel, build a new road, and send it north as two lanes.  If this is done staff recommends replanting a new tree line to hide the traffic as it goes north around the area.  Also, the church members would only be able to arrive from one way; they would have to circle around to get to the church.  Mr. Ramage said that a third option is a different one way pair taking the existing two lanes of the roadway, making them both northbound, and building a new two lane road to the west which would go around behind church.  He said that the downside to this approach is that it has a direct impact on the church. 

Mayor McAlister said that it may be better to put the options out for public comment.  He said that would provide an opportunity for citizens to be heard before council makes a decision. 

Mrs. Robinson said that council needs to decide what is right.  She asked about the cost of the land parcels, stating that it is a big consideration and that they need to be cautious in moving forward. 

Mr. Roseland suggested removing option three going through the cemetery, which is the two lanes to the left.   

Mrs. Robinson said they first need to decide if they want to preserve the area and that will drive the road decisions.  She said they also need to understand the costs involved.  Mr. McRainey said that Mr. Mills would like to see that area protected and preserved. 

Ms. Dorrel said another approach is through a land trust with preservation easements on the area that has the historic structures.  She thinks there is tremendous value from the primary view shed which is Mr. Mills’ property.  The real question is whether they want to protect the district.  She said that she is not willing to support four lanes on Green Level Church Road ; she supports the east two way pair in order to provide the protection. 

Mrs. Robinson asked what would happen if they agreed on the pair of roads to the east.  Mr. Ulma said it would be located on the edge of the developable portion. 

Mr. Ramage said Mr. Mills’ tract is a little over 50 acres and the staff cost estimate was about $7.5 million for that piece at current market.  He said acquiring part of the Reba Mills’ tract to the north would add about another 15-20 acres, but they may not be willing to sell a portion. 

Ms. Dorrel said they don’t have to decide today how to preserve the area; they need to decide the preferred route.  Mrs. Robinson said they need to give staff direction to look at the options and find out what the current owners paid for their land and the current cost.  Mr. Ulma said another component is how council wants staff to work on that procedurally.  Mr. Ramage added that staff would hold a community meeting after they get direction.  He said it would also be an official thoroughfare plan amendment. 

Mrs. Robinson said it sounds like they are interested in preserving the view shed and historic buildings.  Mrs. Robison said it is a high priority.  She said it is a one time opportunity to set in place a blueprint to optimize and leverage their resources. 

Mrs. Robison asked about alternatives if the view were bigger and whether it could be left at two lanes. Mr. Bailey said that the volumes are anticipated to increase significantly and staff didn’t believe that a two lane road would work. 

Mrs. Robison asked about parallel roads to divert traffic.  Mr. Bailey said they can’t go toward Jordan Lake with any new roads because it starts crossing core property. He said that staff worked hard to come up with options and there aren’t a lot of road options in the area. 

Mr. Roseland said he sees three recommendations:  modify the transportation plan similar to option two, direct staff to work through a third party preservation group to acquire up to 70 acres, and then figure out how to pay for it.  He suggested modifying the Town’s federal legislative agenda and looking for an earmark to pay for or contribute toward the open space.  Mrs. Robison suggested that it may be of interest to the clean water management trust fund. 

Mrs. Robinson said that they need to be very aggressive with open space acquisitions because the land value has escalated.  She would like staff to talk to the landowner and bring back to council several options.  She would also like to know the worth of the entire parcel.  She asked staff to have information back to council by the next council meeting.

Mr. Portman said he would like to see the costs for the various components in order to evaluate it against other issues and decide if it is something council wants to fund.  Mr. Ramage said that staff looked at different options and the cost is about $7.5 million to $15 million depending on how much land is acquired.  He said it’s going for about $150,000 an acre.  Staff also asked if other funding sources were available, like clean water trust fund money.  Mr. McRainey added that the Town received $1.6 million from clean water for White Oak.  He said that land value have risen so much that what they’ve been able to purchase has been along White Oak—which is over 180 acres to the south.  He said we could submit for the area currently under discussion; sometimes if they don’t have to buy it they can negotiate some type of conservation easement.  He said the two parcels added together equal 143 acres and the amount of riparian buffer that could be used toward a clean water grant is in the 50-60 acres range between the two parcels. 

Mr. McRainey said staff may need time to talk with the land owner before bringing information back to council.  He said there’s been considerable resistance from the land owner for the southern parcel. 

Ms. Dorrel asked if they want to have a separate community meeting to get comments or do it as part of the thoroughfare update.  Mr. Portman said it should be a separate meeting.  He said road and open space are needed to achieve the objective.  Mayor McAlister said it needs to be separate.  Mrs. Robison agreed.

Mayor McAlister said there’s still an open question about the money.  He said they agreed that it should be preserved but it can’t be done without putting a number on it. He recapped council’s agreement stating that they agreed that the east alignment—two way pair—makes the most sense, they want to preserve the view shed, and they want to handle it separately from thoroughfare plan. 

Mrs. Robison asked if the road could be pulled further to the west because pulling the road to the east compromises the view shed.  Mr. Henderson said there are some topographical issues but they can go a little further.  Mayor McAlister said that the number of properties that they would encroach upon in that alignment—there are seven—would make it more difficult.  Mr. Roseland added it would also limit the church’s ability to expand.  Mr. Ulma said that staff can look at the west again and let council know if there is anything that can be done.  Ms. Dorrel said there may be other benefits to be realized if there are plans to the east.

Ms. Dorrel said that she would like them to preserve the district and the structures in the district as well as preservation of the view shed. 

Ms. Dorrel left the meeting at this point at 5:31 p.m.

Mr. Ramage asked about council direction.  Mayor McAlister said they don’t want to explore four lanes. 

Mr. Ramage said based on staff’s past experience the most comment from the public will probably come from parishioners of the church.  He said it may be worthwhile to have more than one option in case the parishioners react negatively to having only one-way access in front of the church.  Mr. Henderson added that options are always good, especially at a community meeting.  He said there is some wiggle room to adjust the alignment. They are trying to avoid the hillside, the stream buffer and two homes.  He said that they intentionally avoided the cemetery, the issue is whether they are going through a future cemetery for the church.  He said they could try to push it to the very western edge of the future cemetery. 

Mayor McAlister said with two options available they may hear something new at the public hearing that they hadn’t thought of. 

Mr. Ulma said staff will let council know the schedule and keep council posted on the timing for taking it out to the community.

Meeting adjourned. At 5:38 p.m.