Cary Town Council Minutes
Aquatics Center Work Session 
November 8 2006 
Conference Room 10035 
316 N. Academy St., Cary, NC

Present: Mayor Ernie McAlister, Mayor Pro Tem Jack Smith, Council Members Marla Dorrel, Jennifer Robinson, Julie Robison and Nels Roseland

Mayor McAlister called the meeting to order at 4:05 p.m.

Parks, Recreation and Cultural Resources Director Mary Henderson outlined staff’s power point presentation, including the agenda, which is attached to and incorporated in these minutes as Exhibit A. 

Scott Hunsaker, consultant from Councilman Hunsaker, reviewed the aquatic facility options.  He stated that the primary difference between the facility options is the amount of the U.S. swim team usage and the amount of meets hosted at the facilities. He said there are capacity issues when looking at high school teams because the short course option would not meet all of the demand.

Mr. Hunsaker said that the water space is almost identical for the indoor components of aquatics for the regional facility and the community center.  The difference is between the building and support elements, i.e., lobby, administration area, food service, restrooms and meet management rooms (about 22 square feet of surface area in support spaces).  Other differences for the venue concept are dedicated team locker rooms, additional administrative spaces, and increased building, mechanical and circulation spaces.

Budget Director Scott Fogleman explained the funding options, stating that they were prepared with flexibility in mind.  Staff used fiscal year 2008 because it relates to $7.8 million in future approaches to the fund balance.

Mayor McAlister asked about the county’s commitment for funding.  Mr. Fogleman responded that for the first several years it’s a total of $5 million and the last payment is about $1.3 million—payments are spread out every year from January 2007 to 2018.  Mayor McAlister asked if the county contribution matched a phased construction schedule. Mr. Fogleman replied yes.

Mrs. Robinson asked which community centers in the master planning are slated for 2009.  Mrs. Henderson said staff always looked at the north Cary community center as the next one and they have not identified the other locations.

Ms. Dorrel suggested eliminating the community center option because the savings are not as expected. Mayor McAlister agreed. Ms. Dorrel said that the $30 million for the regional venue includes the outdoor aquatics and that component is not included in the expanded community center model.

Mr. Roseland asked if the north Cary site would accommodate either option. Mrs. Henderson said yes.  

Mrs. Robison asked if it would also accommodate the community center.  Mrs. Henderson said staff did not look at the community center with the regional venue.  Limited community center options could be added, but there would be issues related to a full-fledged community center.

Mrs. Robison expressed concern about the Town’s commitment to road infrastructure stating that north Cary Parkway has not been widened and it is not currently on the capital improvement plan (CIP).  She asked about the implications at the north Cary site for road capacity.  Mrs. Henderson responded that those issues would be included in the design details and staff has not reached that point yet. 

Ms. Dorrel said that any site chosen would involve some type of road improvements, although there are some peculiarities to the north Cary site.  Mrs. Robison said that discussions have been focused around the north Cary site and required road improvements need to be considered for that area.

Mr. Roseland asked if an aquatics facility in the north Cary area would have to meet the Adequate Public Facilities (APF) requirement and if adjustments would be provided.  Engineering Director Tim Bailey said that a traffic study would have to be done and mitigate the impact for p.m. peak hour, but most of the events are not p.m. peak hour. He said that there’s an exception in the APF requirement for p.m. for events and it may be a little different than envisioning the traffic impact. 

Mayor McAlister asked if staff had a cost estimate on the road improvements even though they are not currently on the CIP.  Mr. Bailey said they have not looked at the current value, but it’s fairly significant and probably in the $5-$7 million range. He said that the bridge alone is probably $1 million.

Mayor Pro Tem Smith asked about the long range plans and whether an aquatics facility is an appropriate fit for a residential area.  Planning Director Jeff Ulma responded that the land is probably shown for parkland use in the plan. He said staff would have to look at the land use plan and determine if a location surrounded by residential is the most appropriate use for a commercial activity.

Council members agreed to pursue a regional aquatics venue concept for the aquatics facility

Mrs. Robinson said that council discussed their interests in a private-public partnership during initial discussions about an aquatics facility. She spoke with representatives of the aquatics community who have expressed in writing their level of support for a private-public partnership.  (A copy of the letter from Hill Carrow on behalf of the Friends of the Town of Cary Aquatic Center (“Friends”) is attached to and incorporated herein as Exhibit B.)  Mrs. Robinson said the letter does not include the selling of naming rights—those funds will be viewed separately.  She said they discuss creating an endowment that would be funded by selling the naming rights, setting a goal between 6-8 years, and having enough money in the endowment to create sufficient interest to pay for the facility operations.  She said that not only would the private sector help defray the costs of construction but their commitment would make it so that operating the facility would not be a burden to the Town.

Mayor McAlister asked how much money the naming rights could generate.  Mr. Hunsaker said they would have to do some research; the Town would have to decide on an approach and the types of names that would be appropriate.

Mrs. Robinson said that the Friends would create a special interest fund for the aquatics facility that would be fueled by naming rights and contributions from the private sector.  She said they are hoping that fund would grow to between $3-$5 million and draw interest from there.  Mrs. Robinson said the details would be worked out between the Town and the private sector, but the goal is to have enough funds brought in by the private sector to pay for the operating costs for the facility.

Mayor McAlister said that $5 million from the private sector towards the capital costs of a $30 million facility is a lower number than he would look for but it is an unknown until they have a chance to evaluate that in conjunction with continuing revenue streams that may be generated. He said more definition is needed on exactly what that would mean and whether it would be an equitable distribution for capital costs and continuing funding to make it happen.

Mr. Roseland said he has a lot of reluctance for banking on $5 million as a hard commitment which was just received from the swimming community. He said the only way to meet the test of providing a major facility without a tax increase is for council to identify $15 million in cash for the Town to support the facility, because he doesn’t want to depend on a $5 million commitment from the Friends.

Mrs. Robinson said it would be wrong for council to pass up the opportunity for a private-public partnership.  She said it would be good if they can get a commitment from the Friends that expresses an assurance for capital and operational funds. Ms. Dorrel added that there has consistently been interest expressed in providing additional financial funding support for the facility and this is the starting point.  She said with a council decision the Friends would be able to move forward with soliciting for the funds.

Mayor McAlister said it’s a matter of how much participation council would expect from the community and how long it would take for council to be comfortable with the fact that the Friends can participate at that level.  Ms. Dorrel stated that the level is yet to be defined.  She doesn’t want to set a specific contribution amount from the private sector; she would like to see some flexibility provided.  Mayor McAlister said between $5-$10 million from the private sector would balance the capital side of the project.

Mrs. Robison asked the mayor his vision for an implementation time frame.  Mayor McAlister responded that it would be an agreement in principal from the council to pursue the facility, the level at which they would fund it, and then allowing the private sector time to secure commitments to support their end of the project. He said given the amount of work that’s been done and looking at the list of supporters a number of commitments could be lined up in a fairly short time that would provide an indication of whether the support from the private sector will materialize.  Mrs. Robison asked if he was referring to pledges to serve as a starting point. Mayor McAlister responded yes.

Mr. Roseland suggested that council authorize moving forward with the design and engineering of the project and set aside $15 million in cash with the understanding that construction bids will not be executed until the $5 million contribution from the Friends is received. He said that should give the Friends approximately nine months to a year as a general time frame for the fundraising and if they have not succeeded by that time then the trigger can be pulled on awarding a contract.

Mayor McAlister said he doesn’t want to spend money designing something that may not get built. He would want a shorter time period to examine the success of the fundraising campaign before beginning the design and engineering. 

Ms. Dorrel said that the outdoor leisure pool (which costs approximately $4.3 million) is one of the things bringing up the total cost for the facility.  She said it is not a component that will be used by the competitive community and it could be added later.

Mayor McAlister asked whether a regional venue could be done without the outdoor pool.  Mrs. Henderson responded yes.  Mrs. Robison said that the community component of the facility is the outdoor recreation and it should not be compromised.  Mayor Pro Tem Smith added that people voted for the parks bond because they wanted an outdoor community pool and there was never a competitive swimming component to it.  Mrs. Robison said they shouldn’t cut short the community interest for outdoor aquatics.  Ms. Dorrel said that she has always supported the outdoor leisure pool but she doesn’t believe the competitive community should have to provide the funding for it. 

Mayor Pro Tem Smith said if they are going with larger venue the funding contributions should be equally divided—in concept it should be about a third of the investment.  He doesn’t think $5 million from the private sector is enough but it is a step forward.

Ms. Dorrel asked if it would be appropriate to state a motion supporting the regional venue concept contingent on additional information and response from the private sector as to their contribution.  She said the private sector needs to hear from council that they want to do the regional venue and asked if they have consensus on the regional venue.

Mayor McAlister said they need to hear from Mr. Carrow on the time frame required to put together the funding options.

Mrs. Robison stated her agreement to hear from Mr. Carrow.  She said in asking the community to make a commitment council should put more money on the line.  She said there is $14.8 million in the fund balance which is above council’s commitment of having six months of operating expenditures in the bank and that money should be dedicated to the project. She said It shows the community council’s willingness to make a firm commitment.

Mayor McAlister said he is not prepared to commit the entire excess cash amount to the aquatics project.  He said that council needs to be judicious in using the money.

Mr. Roseland said that he agrees with doing a mid-year appropriation to set aside money from the fund balance with a challenge to the Friends and setting trigger points for their fundraising.

Mayor McAlister said they are not at a point to commit sources of funding.  Mrs. Robison said that her intention is that the Town should commit the cash if they are reluctant to bond the money and dedicating the fund balance commits to the project.

Mayor McAlister said that appropriating another $14 million would bring the Town’s total commitment for the project to approximately $19 million, which is far beyond their original intentions.  Mrs. Robison said that her proposal is to make another significant commitment whether it is $5 million or $14.8 million in order to make the project work without bond funding. She said they can’t count the $10 million from hotel meals tax because the Town has to put that up in the beginning.

Mayor McAlister asked Mr. Carrow about the fundraising time frame for the Friends.  Mr. Carrow responded that there was always $5 million from the private sector dedicated to the operations costs. He said the timing of their correspondence is geared toward council’s getting close to a decision point on the concept—with more specificity to a facility there is a lot of opportunity to go to the community to secure commitments.  He said that although their board could commit in a short time, getting the actual pledges would take more time to secure.

Mayor McAlister asked if council agreeing in principal to pursue the regional venue facility and allocate an additional increment of cash towards the project would provide the level of specificity the Friends needed to provide the time frame for their commitment.  Mr. Carrow replied that it would give them what they need to begin.

Mrs. Robinson asked if the Friends could make a commitment to the capital fund raising, naming rights, and operational fund raising.  Mr. Carrow said that some donors may want to have something—a pool or lane—associated with their donation. He said that sponsorships are usually geared to helping with the operations and Town staff would need to discuss what sponsorships can be applied.

Mr. Roseland asked if the Friends were willing to commit $5 million to fill the gap in capital within a certain time frame so that the Town can solicit or receive construction bids.  Mr. Carrow responded that the intent of the Friends’ letter is to address the gap in capital spending and, on top of that, provide assistance through sponsorships to address the operating costs.

Mayor McAlister said that he doesn’t want to start design without assurance that there are resources to build. He said that 90 days is not too long to wait to see the success of the Friends’ campaign.  Mr. Roseland said he wants to authorize design on a facility.  He is not comfortable supporting further delay.

Ms. Dorrel said she wants council to make a decision to move forward. She said design is site specific and she doesn’t think council is ready to commit to a site.  Mayor McAlister and Mr. Roseland said that they are ready.  Mrs. Robison said the north Cary community expressed concerns about the proposed sight and a regional facility in that area has not been vetted in the community.

 

Mrs. Robinson said that council could direct funding to be applied to the aquatic center, staff to work out an agreement with the Friends on the timing of their pledges and look at a site in the vicinity of north Cary near the I-40 corridor, not specifically selecting the site but looking at the inventory of sites in that vicinity.  Mrs. Robison said she could support something along those lines.

 

Mrs. Henderson said that staff has already looked at several sites in that area. She said the first thing the design team would do is review the site selection as they move forward with the project. Mr. Hunsaker added that the design team would be tasked as part of the selection and evaluation process to make the site work with regard to the facilities, traffic, and neighborhood issues.  Those things would be considered through the entire creative process.

 

Ms. Dorrel asked council members if they would agree to pursue a regional venue and appropriate an additional $10 million on the project.  Mayor McAlister and Mayor Pro Tem Smith stated that they couldn’t support that.

 

Mayor McAlister said while he is comfortable pursing the facility based on council discussions, he has other concerns related to building a regional venue facility that will compete with a private venture.  He agrees with setting aside more money from the fund balance as a show of good faith and that the Friends should raise additional funds.  He said if council continues to pursue a regional venue facility it should be based on the contingencies attached to it, i.e., the hotel meal tax money, a successful campaign from the Friends, and a significant level of pledges stating that the private sector will share in the costs.

 

Mrs. Robison asked if the mayor was suggesting an incremental commitment.  Mayor McAlister responded yes.  He said he is reluctant to begin spending money on design in engineering until they know whether the private support is there. He said that he can support a commitment to the regional venue and a certain amount of funding contingent upon the private community stepping up.

 

Mr. Roseland said one plan is to move forward with the north Cary site and set aside $10 million; another option is a community center scale $13.5 million pool where $5 million is currently set aside and the difference of $7-$8 million is taken from the fund balance, thereby avoiding a tax increase.  Mrs. Robison said that she is committed to the regional venue and would have a higher degree of comfort with a community center being built on that site.

 

Mayor McAlister said $10 million is a big chunk to swallow when it’s two-thirds of the Town’s excess, although he is in favor of setting aside additional money from the fund balance for the aquatics effort. He said if they pursue a regional venue facility they need to understand where the community help is going to come from and at what support level.

 

Mayor Pro Tem Smith cautioned that a regional venue is a major effort and they need to look carefully at where it is located.  He said that north Cary may not be the right fit for that kind of an activity and there may be bigger issues with the community if it is located in that area.  He said they should go back to the community center concept.

 

Ms. Dorrel suggested making a motion to pursue a regional aquatics venue, appropriate an additional $10 million from the general fund fund balance toward the project, and condition the motion on receiving a firm commitment and fundraising plan from the private sector for a minimum of $5 million for capital.  

 

Mrs. Robinson asked if Ms Dorrel was open to including something about a commitment for the sponsorship for operations.  Mayor McAlister asked if pursing a regional venue facility would mean beginning immediately with planning, designing, and site work.  Ms. Dorrel said getting the firm commitment and a flushed out plan for $5 million or more in private funding predicates everything.  She wouldn’t expect a lot of other effort to precede that; her hope is that the motion would embody a sufficient commitment from the Friends to generate firmer commitments and pledges.  She is trying to give them what they need to give council what they need.

 

Mrs. Henderson suggested that staff work with the Friends on a plan to ensure comfort levels.  She suggested that staff be authorized to structure some kind of RFP process, look at the different trigger points where decisions have to be made before significant money is spent, and begin the process. It would help out with the site selection, and confirm the programming and schematics before getting to the designs.  Mr. Hunsaker added that it’s not unusual to authorize a design plan in pieces.  He said it would be a benefit to have a team in place to knowledgeably study and answer questions; the site analysis can be done along with the program confirmation which would provide an opportunity to access funding and a decision to proceed. 

 

Mrs. Robison asked how long it would take.  Mr. Hunsaker responded that his assumptions are that the team needs to be put together and create a request for proposal under the Town’s protocol which would likely take until early February to pull together and advertise; they would need approximately another 45 days to select a team, another 90 days for the program confirmation, community outreach, and site analysis process.  It would be mid-summer when they would have the additional information, approximately June 15, and provide council with the information needed to decide whether to go forward.

 

Ms. Dorrel said she doesn’t want to include operations because there needs to be critical give and take between the staff and the Friends about the responsibility for naming rights.

 

Mr. Roseland asked about focusing the location in the general north Cary target area.  Mrs. Henderson said staff would look at that area and other sites in performing a site analysis to provide a more comprehensive understanding.

 

Assistant Town Manager Ben Shivar said if the location is not included in the motion staff could bring information to the December Operations Committee with the specifics for pursing a site.

 

Mrs. Robison asked about council receiving an analysis and recommendation.  Mr. Hunsaker said it will be required as part of the approval process.

 

Mrs. Robison asked if it would be premature to state where to locate the regional center. Mr. Hunsaker said a preliminary look at north Cary has been done and it would fit on that site; they have not looked any further.  Mrs. Henderson added that staff could provide a staff report at the December Operations Committee outlining the process for putting the team together and further steps.

 

ACTION:  Ms. Dorrel moved to designate the project scope, appropriate $10 million in funds to support the project in addition to the $5 million already on board, and make it clear that the expectation for the private sector is to come up with at least $5 million to support the project.  Mrs. Robison provided second. Ms. Dorrel, Mrs. Robinson and Mrs. Robison voted “aye”.  Mayor McAlister, Mayor Pro Tem Smith and Mr. Roseland voted “no”.  The motion failed for lack of a majority.

 

Mr. Roseland said that three out of four north Cary residents think it would be great to have a facility on that site; one out of four have expressed concern about traffic. He said the north Cary site has 30 acres and the analysis is that 13 acres are needed for a regional facility.  He would support a motion that focused on the north Cary park site. 

 

Ms. Dorrel suggested introducing the same motion with inclusion of the preferred site in the north Cary area. Mrs. Robinson said she is comfortable approving a motion directing staff to focus its study on and limit the site selection to that area—that site and any other 15 acre parcels in the general vicinity.  Mr. Roseland concurred.

 

ACTION:  Ms. Dorrel moved to designate the project scope as a regional aquatics venue, appropriate $10 million in funds from the general fund fund balance to support the project, conditioned upon receiving a firm commitment and fundraising plan covering a minimum of $5 million in capital from the private sector, and directing staff to focus the site selection process on either the parcel across from the north Cary park or any other 15 acres plus parcels in the general vicinity of the north Cary parkland.  Mrs. Robinson provided the second.

 

Mrs. Robison said she wants it to be clear that they are not committing to that site. Mrs. Robinson said that the site selection analysis is for north Cary parkland or another site nearby.

 

ACTION: A vote was called for on the motion and Mayor McAlister and Mayor Pro Tem Smith voted “no.”  All others voted “aye.” The motion carried by majority vote.

Mayor McAlister adjourned the meeting at 6  p.m.