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Cary Town Council Minutes Present: Mayor Ernie McAlister, Mayor Pro Tem Jack Smith, Council Members Marla Dorrel, Jennifer Robinson, Julie Robison and Nels Roseland Mayor McAlister called
the meeting to order at Parks, Recreation and
Cultural Resources Director Mary Henderson outlined staff’s power point
presentation, including the agenda, which is attached to and incorporated
in these minutes as Exhibit A.
Scott Hunsaker,
consultant from Councilman Hunsaker, reviewed the aquatic facility
options. He stated that the
primary difference between the facility options is the amount of the Mr. Hunsaker said that
the water space is almost identical for the indoor components of aquatics
for the regional facility and the community center.
The difference is between the building and support elements, i.e.,
lobby, administration area, food service, restrooms and meet management
rooms (about 22 square feet of surface area in support spaces). Other
differences for the venue concept are dedicated team locker rooms,
additional administrative spaces, and increased building, mechanical and
circulation spaces. Budget Director Scott
Fogleman explained the funding options, stating that they were prepared
with flexibility in mind. Staff
used fiscal year 2008 because it relates to $7.8 million in future
approaches to the fund balance. Mayor McAlister asked
about the county’s commitment for funding.
Mr. Fogleman responded that for the first several years it’s a
total of $5 million and the last payment is about $1.3 million—payments
are spread out every year from January 2007 to 2018. Mayor
McAlister asked if the county contribution matched a phased construction
schedule. Mr. Fogleman replied yes. Mrs. Robinson asked which
community centers in the master planning are slated for 2009.
Mrs. Henderson said staff always looked at the north Ms. Dorrel suggested
eliminating the community center option because the savings are not as
expected. Mayor McAlister agreed. Ms. Dorrel said that the $30 million for
the regional venue includes the outdoor aquatics and that component is not
included in the expanded community center model. Mr. Roseland asked if the
north Mrs. Robison asked if it
would also accommodate the community center.
Mrs. Henderson said staff did not look at the community center
with the regional venue. Limited
community center options could be added, but there would be issues related
to a full-fledged community center. Mrs. Robison expressed
concern about the Town’s commitment to road infrastructure stating that Ms. Dorrel said that any
site chosen would involve some type of road improvements, although there
are some peculiarities to the north Mr. Roseland asked if an
aquatics facility in the north Mayor McAlister asked if
staff had a cost estimate on the road improvements even though they are
not currently on the CIP. Mr.
Bailey said they have not looked at the current value, but it’s fairly
significant and probably in the $5-$7 million range. He said that the
bridge alone is probably $1 million. Mayor Pro Tem Smith asked
about the long range plans and whether an aquatics facility is an
appropriate fit for a residential area. Planning
Director Jeff Ulma responded that the land is probably shown for parkland
use in the plan. He said staff would have to look at the land use plan and
determine if a location surrounded by residential is the most appropriate
use for a commercial activity. Council members agreed to
pursue a regional aquatics venue concept for the aquatics facility Mrs. Robinson said that
council discussed their interests in a private-public partnership during
initial discussions about an aquatics facility. She spoke with
representatives of the aquatics community who have expressed in writing
their level of support for a private-public partnership. (A
copy of the letter from Hill Carrow on behalf of the Friends of the Town
of Cary Aquatic Center (“Friends”) is attached to and incorporated
herein as Exhibit B.)
Mrs. Robinson said the letter does not include the selling of
naming rights—those funds will be viewed separately. She
said they discuss creating an endowment that would be funded by selling
the naming rights, setting a goal between 6-8 years, and having enough
money in the endowment to create sufficient interest to pay for the
facility operations. She said
that not only would the private sector help defray the costs of
construction but their commitment would make it so that operating the
facility would not be a burden to the Town. Mayor McAlister asked how
much money the naming rights could generate. Mr.
Hunsaker said they would have to do some research; the Town would have to
decide on an approach and the types of names that would be appropriate. Mrs. Robinson said that
the Friends would create a special interest fund for the aquatics facility
that would be fueled by naming rights and contributions from the private
sector. She said they are
hoping that fund would grow to between $3-$5 million and draw interest
from there. Mrs. Robinson
said the details would be worked out between the Town and the private
sector, but the goal is to have enough funds brought in by the private
sector to pay for the operating costs for the facility. Mayor McAlister said that
$5 million from the private sector towards the capital costs of a $30
million facility is a lower number than he would look for but it is an
unknown until they have a chance to evaluate that in conjunction with
continuing revenue streams that may be generated. He said more definition
is needed on exactly what that would mean and whether it would be an
equitable distribution for capital costs and continuing funding to make it
happen. Mr. Roseland said he has
a lot of reluctance for banking on $5 million as a hard commitment which
was just received from the swimming community. He said the only way to
meet the test of providing a major facility without a tax increase is for
council to identify $15 million in cash for the Town to support the
facility, because he doesn’t want to depend on a $5 million commitment
from the Friends. Mrs. Robinson said it
would be wrong for council to pass up the opportunity for a private-public
partnership. She said it would
be good if they can get a commitment from the Friends that expresses an
assurance for capital and operational funds. Ms. Dorrel added that there
has consistently been interest expressed in providing additional financial
funding support for the facility and this is the starting point. She
said with a council decision the Friends would be able to move forward
with soliciting for the funds. Mayor McAlister said
it’s a matter of how much participation council would expect from the
community and how long it would take for council to be comfortable with
the fact that the Friends can participate at that level.
Ms. Dorrel stated that the level is yet to be defined. She
doesn’t want to set a specific contribution amount from the private
sector; she would like to see some flexibility provided. Mayor
McAlister said between $5-$10 million from the private sector would
balance the capital side of the project. Mrs. Robison asked the
mayor his vision for an implementation time frame.
Mayor McAlister responded that it would be an agreement in
principal from the council to pursue the facility, the level at which they
would fund it, and then allowing the private sector time to secure
commitments to support their end of the project. He said given the amount
of work that’s been done and looking at the list of supporters a number
of commitments could be lined up in a fairly short time that would provide
an indication of whether the support from the private sector will
materialize. Mrs. Robison
asked if he was referring to pledges to serve as a starting point. Mayor
McAlister responded yes. Mr. Roseland suggested
that council authorize moving forward with the design and engineering of
the project and set aside $15 million in cash with the understanding that
construction bids will not be executed until the $5 million contribution
from the Friends is received. He said that should give the Friends
approximately nine months to a year as a general time frame for the
fundraising and if they have not succeeded by that time then the trigger
can be pulled on awarding a contract. Mayor McAlister said he
doesn’t want to spend money designing something that may not get built.
He would want a shorter time period to examine the success of the
fundraising campaign before beginning the design and engineering.
Ms. Dorrel said that the
outdoor leisure pool (which costs approximately $4.3 million) is one of
the things bringing up the total cost for the facility.
She said it is not a component that will be used by the competitive
community and it could be added later. Mayor McAlister asked
whether a regional venue could be done without the outdoor pool.
Mrs. Henderson responded yes. Mrs.
Robison said that the community component of the facility is the outdoor
recreation and it should not be compromised.
Mayor Pro Tem Smith added that people voted for the parks bond
because they wanted an outdoor community pool and there was never a
competitive swimming component to it.
Mrs. Robison said they shouldn’t cut short the community interest
for outdoor aquatics. Ms.
Dorrel said that she has always supported the outdoor leisure pool but she
doesn’t believe the competitive community should have to provide the
funding for it. Mayor Pro Tem Smith said
if they are going with larger venue the funding contributions should be
equally divided—in concept it should be about a third of the investment.
He doesn’t think $5 million
from the private sector is enough but it is a step forward. Ms. Dorrel asked if it
would be appropriate to state a motion supporting the regional venue
concept contingent on additional information and response from the private
sector as to their contribution. She
said the private sector needs to hear from council that they want to do
the regional venue and asked if they have consensus on the regional venue.
Mayor McAlister said they
need to hear from Mr. Carrow on the time frame required to put together
the funding options. Mrs. Robison stated her
agreement to hear from Mr. Carrow. She
said in asking the community to make a commitment council should put more
money on the line. She said
there is $14.8 million in the fund balance which is above council’s
commitment of having six months of operating expenditures in the bank and
that money should be dedicated to the project. She said It shows the
community council’s willingness to make a firm commitment. Mayor McAlister said he
is not prepared to commit the entire excess cash amount to the aquatics
project. He said that council
needs to be judicious in using the money. Mr. Roseland said that he
agrees with doing a mid-year appropriation to set aside money from the
fund balance with a challenge to the Friends and setting trigger points
for their fundraising. Mayor McAlister said they
are not at a point to commit sources of funding.
Mrs. Robison said that her intention is that the Town should commit
the cash if they are reluctant to bond the money and dedicating the fund
balance commits to the project. Mayor McAlister said that
appropriating another $14 million would bring the Town’s total
commitment for the project to approximately $19 million, which is far
beyond their original intentions. Mrs.
Robison said that her proposal is to make another significant commitment
whether it is $5 million or $14.8 million in order to make the project
work without bond funding. She said they can’t count the $10 million
from hotel meals tax because the Town has to put that up in the beginning.
Mayor McAlister asked Mr.
Carrow about the fundraising time frame for the Friends.
Mr. Carrow responded that there was always $5 million from the
private sector dedicated to the operations costs. He said the timing of
their correspondence is geared toward council’s getting close to a
decision point on the concept—with more specificity to a facility there
is a lot of opportunity to go to the community to secure commitments. He
said that although their board could commit in a short time, getting the
actual pledges would take more time to secure. Mayor McAlister asked if
council agreeing in principal to pursue the regional venue facility and
allocate an additional increment of cash towards the project would provide
the level of specificity the Friends needed to provide the time frame for
their commitment. Mr. Carrow
replied that it would give them what they need to begin. Mrs. Robinson asked if
the Friends could make a commitment to the capital fund raising, naming
rights, and operational fund raising.
Mr. Carrow said that some donors may want to have something—a
pool or lane—associated with their donation. He said that sponsorships
are usually geared to helping with the operations and Town staff would
need to discuss what sponsorships can be applied. Mr. Roseland asked if the
Friends were willing to commit $5 million to fill the gap in capital
within a certain time frame so that the Town can solicit or receive
construction bids. Mr. Carrow
responded that the intent of the Friends’ letter is to address the gap
in capital spending and, on top of that, provide assistance through
sponsorships to address the operating costs. Mayor McAlister said that
he doesn’t want to start design without assurance that there are
resources to build. He said that 90 days is not too long to wait to see
the success of the Friends’ campaign. Mr.
Roseland said he wants to authorize design on a facility. He
is not comfortable supporting further delay. Ms. Dorrel said she wants
council to make a decision to move forward. She said design is site
specific and she doesn’t think council is ready to commit to a site. Mayor
McAlister and Mr. Roseland said that they are ready.
Mrs. Robison said the north Mrs. Robinson said that
council could direct funding to be applied to the aquatic center, staff to
work out an agreement with the Friends on the timing of their pledges and
look at a site in the vicinity of north Cary near the I-40 corridor, not
specifically selecting the site but looking at the inventory of sites in
that vicinity. Mrs. Robison
said she could support something along those lines. Mrs. Henderson said that
staff has already looked at several sites in that area. She said the first
thing the design team would do is review the site selection as they move
forward with the project. Mr. Hunsaker added that the design team would be
tasked as part of the selection and evaluation process to make the site
work with regard to the facilities, traffic, and neighborhood issues.
Those things would be considered through the entire creative
process. Ms. Dorrel asked council
members if they would agree to pursue a regional venue and appropriate an
additional $10 million on the project.
Mayor McAlister and Mayor Pro Tem Smith stated that they couldn’t
support that. Mayor McAlister said
while he is comfortable pursing the facility based on council discussions,
he has other concerns related to building a regional venue facility that
will compete with a private venture. He
agrees with setting aside more money from the fund balance as a show of
good faith and that the Friends should raise additional funds. He
said if council continues to pursue a regional venue facility it should be
based on the contingencies attached to it, i.e., the hotel meal tax money,
a successful campaign from the Friends, and a significant level of pledges
stating that the private sector will share in the costs. Mrs. Robison asked if the
mayor was suggesting an incremental commitment. Mayor
McAlister responded yes. He
said he is reluctant to begin spending money on design in engineering
until they know whether the private support is there. He said that he can
support a commitment to the regional venue and a certain amount of funding
contingent upon the private community stepping up. Mr. Roseland said one
plan is to move forward with the north Mayor McAlister said $10
million is a big chunk to swallow when it’s two-thirds of the Town’s
excess, although he is in favor of setting aside additional money from the
fund balance for the aquatics effort. He said if they pursue a regional
venue facility they need to understand where the community help is going
to come from and at what support level. Mayor Pro Tem Smith
cautioned that a regional venue is a major effort and they need to look
carefully at where it is located. He
said that north Ms. Dorrel suggested
making a motion to pursue a regional aquatics venue, appropriate an
additional $10 million from the general fund fund balance toward the
project, and condition the motion on receiving a firm commitment and
fundraising plan from the private sector for a minimum of $5 million for
capital. Mrs. Robinson asked if Ms
Dorrel was open to including something about a commitment for the
sponsorship for operations. Mayor
McAlister asked if pursing a regional venue facility would mean beginning
immediately with planning, designing, and site work.
Ms. Dorrel said getting the firm commitment and a flushed out plan
for $5 million or more in private funding predicates everything. She
wouldn’t expect a lot of other effort to precede that; her hope is that
the motion would embody a sufficient commitment from the Friends to
generate firmer commitments and pledges. She
is trying to give them what they need to give council what they need. Mrs. Henderson suggested
that staff work with the Friends on a plan to ensure comfort levels.
She suggested that staff be authorized to structure some kind of
RFP process, look at the different trigger points where decisions have to
be made before significant money is spent, and begin the process. It would
help out with the site selection, and confirm the programming and
schematics before getting to the designs. Mr.
Hunsaker added that it’s not unusual to authorize a design plan in
pieces. He said it would be a
benefit to have a team in place to knowledgeably study and answer
questions; the site analysis can be done along with the program
confirmation which would provide an opportunity to access funding and a
decision to proceed. Mrs. Robison asked how
long it would take. Mr.
Hunsaker responded that his assumptions are that the team needs to be put
together and create a request for proposal under the Town’s protocol
which would likely take until early February to pull together and
advertise; they would need approximately another 45 days to select a team,
another 90 days for the program confirmation, community outreach, and site
analysis process. It would be
mid-summer when they would have the additional information, approximately
June 15, and provide council with the information needed to decide whether
to go forward. Ms. Dorrel said she
doesn’t want to include operations because there needs to be critical
give and take between the staff and the Friends about the responsibility
for naming rights. Mr. Roseland asked about
focusing the location in the general north Mrs. Robison asked about
council receiving an analysis and recommendation. Mr.
Hunsaker said it will be required as part of the approval process. Mrs. Robison asked if it
would be premature to state where to locate the regional center. Mr. Hunsaker
said a preliminary look at north ACTION:
Ms. Dorrel moved to designate the project scope, appropriate $10
million in funds to support the project in addition to the $5 million
already on board, and make it clear that the expectation for the private
sector is to come up with at least $5 million to support the project. Mrs.
Robison provided second. Ms. Dorrel, Mrs. Robinson and Mrs. Robison
voted “aye”. Mayor
McAlister, Mayor Pro Tem Smith and Mr. Roseland voted “no”.
The motion failed for lack of a majority. Mr. Roseland said that
three out of four north Ms. Dorrel suggested
introducing the same motion with inclusion of the preferred site in the
north ACTION:
Ms. Dorrel moved to designate the project scope as a regional
aquatics venue, appropriate $10 million in funds from the general fund
fund balance to support the project, conditioned upon receiving a firm
commitment and fundraising plan covering a minimum of $5 million in
capital from the private sector, and directing staff to focus the site
selection process on either the parcel across from the north Cary park or
any other 15 acres plus parcels in the general vicinity of the north Cary
parkland. Mrs. Robinson
provided the second. Mrs.
Robison said she wants it to be clear that they are not committing to that
site. Mrs. Robinson said that the site selection
analysis is for north Mayor McAlister adjourned the meeting at 6 p.m.
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