|
Cary Town Council Minutes Present: Mayor Ernie McAlister, Mayor Pro Tem Jack Smith, Council Members Marla Dorrel, Jennifer Robinson, and Nels Roseland Mayor McAlister called the meeting to order at 4:43 p.m. Council Member Julie Robison arrived late and her arrival is noted in the minutes. Staff's PowerPoint Presentation is attached to and incorporated in these minutes as Exhibit A. Budget Director Scott Fogleman said that staff wanted to provide council with an idea of the funding needed for various scenarios for an aquatics facility; the Town has $5 million currently appropriated to the project. The Triangle Aquatics Center (TAC) and a regional venue facility would quality for the interlocal funding and the bottom line is the total Town funding needed over 20 years. Mr. Roseland asked about the operating cash flow and if it included debt service cash for payments. Mr. Fogleman responded that it does not. He said staff provided an idea of the total financing costs; adding together the annual operating cash flow plus debt service under each scenario would cost the Town about $2 million for the first year of financing for a joint facility, about $2.4 million for a regional venue, and about $1.1 million for the community center concept. Mr. Roseland asked about the difference to pay for debt service in the first year and whether considering cash or general fund balance financing would eliminate the debt cost in future years and the $4 million interest costs. Mr. Fogleman responded yes. Mayor McAlister added that using cash would create an offset if it is used from earnings on the cash while sitting in the general fund; it would be a net difference. Mayor McAlister said council needs to decide whether to pursue a joint facility with TAC; if not partnering with TAC they will need to decide what facility to build. Mr. Roseland thanked staff and TAC for their work. He said that given the legal procurement issues and financial and logistical challenges council should respectfully decline a partnership. He said that TAC has enough momentum and ability to set up their facility. Mayor Pro Tem Smith concurred. Ms. Dorrel asked if there was discussion of the naming rights being only for the competition pool. Mrs. Henderson said the naming rights are for the facility name. Ms. Dorrel, Mrs. Robinson and Mayor McAlister also agreed with Mr. Roseland. ACTION: Mr. Roseland moved that council respectfully decline the opportunity to partner with Mr. Curran in the TAC facility because of the procurement, financial, and logistical challenges presented by staff. Mrs. Robinson provided the second, and council granted unanimous approval. (Mrs. Robison was not present for this vote; she arrived later in the meeting.) Mayor McAlister said that the regional venue would allow the Town to maintain the allocation from the interlocal funds; however, the net of that money would double the cost of the community center concept-the cash flow from the interlocal funding doesn't cover the interest carried on the bonds. He said that the interlocal funding should not be a deciding factor in the type of facility they should build. Mrs. Robinson would like to the see prices broken out for a 50 meter by 25 yard pool versus an 8 lane by 25 yard pool and the cost of the spectator seating. Mrs. Henderson said the community center concept is broken down by public space and aquatic; the spectator seating, additional mechanical, larger locker rooms, and other things needed doubles the aquatic portion for the venue facility. Mayor McAlister asked about the land cost and whether either facility would fit on land already owned by the Town. Mrs. Henderson said that staff believes either will fit on the property. Mr. Roseland said moving forward on a community center concept would compliment and not conflict with TAC. He said the question was asked previously if two very large scale facilities would create financial risks because of too much market share. He said for some period of time there could be excess capacity. Ms. Dorrel said that she had asked the whether there was enough demand to support two facilities and the answer was yes. She expressed concern that they are not comparing apples to apples. She said that the regional venue also has the outdoor leisure pool, which has always been an attractive feature. The questions to be answered are what it is, who they are serving, and the scope; those issues have never been settled. Mayor McAlister said that two regional venues will create competition for events. He does not want the Town to do anything that would be in direct competition with TAC when there is an opportunity to build something that meets a lot of their objectives and would be complimentary to the TAC venue facility. Mrs. Robinson said council was told that with the need for training capacity two 50 meter pools would probably just meet the current demand. The question comes down to operations and costs of maintaining one of the big pools. Mrs. Robison arrived at 5:15 p.m. Mrs. Robinson said it is worth exploring the cost difference between the different size pools. Mayor Pro Tem Smith said it merits a close look at the usage and whether we are building to the peaks. Mayor McAlister said council's heard very clearly about the lack of facilities for training, but with what's expected of a venue-type facility he doesn't think there are enough regional events to fill two venue facilities. ACTION: Mr. Roseland moved that council direct and authorize Town staff to immediately initiate design engineering, construction, and related activities for a $13 million Cary community concept pool located on Town owned land adjacent to North Cary Park as summarized in staff's presentation; furthermore that the $13 million facility be funded from the existing $5 million reserve fund set aside for aquatics and an additional $8 million mid-year appropriation from the general fund fund balance or related cash funding source; and that council approve the development of a formal proposal for Wake County Commissioners and Raleigh City Council's consideration to redirect and commit the minimum of the $10 million hotel occupancy food and beverage tax funding to a new Cary downtown performing arts center. Mayor McAlister provided the second. Mayor McAlister said he is not prepared to pull $8 million out of the general fund until they have a better understanding of what's in the general fund, how that fund is building, and explore possible middle ground financing and cash for a portion of it. He said the bigger concern is requesting interlocal funding to be redirected to another project. Council needs to be clear that if that is done they would be foregoing the interlocal funding for the aquatics project; they would have to start the process over to convince the interlocal group that Cary has another project of regional allure that would qualify for that funding. He said that redirecting the interlocal funding needs to be a separate action on council's part. Mayor Pro Tem Smith said the Town generates 40 percent of the interlocal revenue. He said council somehow has to lobby to appeal that the Town has the ability to come up with a regional venue worthy of consideration. It needs to be conveyed that Cary wants to be treated in an equitable and fair manner for future funding for a regional venue. Mayor McAlister expressed concern with the process of requesting a change for the interlocal funding. He has spoken with some members of the Raleigh City Council and the County Commissioners about that possibility and they were open to the idea, but it would require a lot of work. Mrs. Robison asked what it would require. Mayor McAlister said Cary would have to present a project of a regional nature that would meet the requirements of the $10 million interlocal funding. Mrs. Robison said that she would hate for the Town to lose the interlocal funding and she suggested council ensure the money can be redirected before making any decision on a facility. Mayor McAlister stated that he would hate for the $10 million to become the "tail that wags the dog" and makes them do something that they wouldn't do otherwise. He cautioned putting too much emphasis on the interlocal funding which doesn't even cover the interest they would have to pay for a regional facility. Mayor McAlister called for the question. ACTION: Vote was called for on the motion and Mr. Roseland and Mayor Pro Tem Smith voted "aye." Mayor McAlister , Ms. Dorrel, Mrs. Robinson and Mrs. Robison voted "no." The motion failed for lack of a majority. Mrs. Robinson said they need to decide whether they want a leisure pool. She asked for the cost difference between a 25 yard and a 50 meter swimming pool. Mrs. Henderson said because of the structure it would be hard to pull out that information. Ms. Dorrel asked abut the 8 lane 25 yard training pool and how it serves the greater community (all groups that support a regional venue). Ms. Henderson said it would create competition training and lesson space, as well as fitness lane spaces, and it would impact the competitive training needs. Mrs. Henderson said that capacity training lanes for five hours and five per lane would cost approximately $250,000 for the 25 yard pool and $550,000 for the 50 meter pool. In the TAC facility, assuming the 25 yard was enclosed, 800 athletes per day could train with 160 at a time using all of the lanes for five hours a day. Mr. Roseland said the question is who should provide the capacity and whether there should be duplicate capacity from the public and non-profit sector. With the community center concept pool the target audience is the recreational swimmers; from a business model standpoint it provides the best cost recovery, financial performance, and least risk. Ms. Dorrel said that she is looking for ways to provide full equitable access, especially for high schools and the training facilities needed. She requested more information on how those needs would be met by the Town. Mrs. Robison asked if the demand issue on the regional facility was addressed at the last work session. She also asked if competition and lack of demand is a major factor. Mrs. Henderson said the consultant stated that the Town can support two 50 meter pools for competitive training because of the numbers involved and teams on the waiting list; however, he believed there would be some concern with competition for events because the demand for two venue facilities close together would be limited for events. Mrs. Robison asked about the trade off in costs if assuming a conservative revenue generation figure. Mrs. Henderson said events are not always revenue generators, but sponsorships can make them more reasonable. Mayor McAlister said council's been told that two venue facilities are too much for the number of events; they should look at pumping up the community center concept to provide enough training space even if it means going to a 50 meter pool, but not turning it into a venue facility. Mrs. Robinson asked how quickly the community center concept would be replicated. She said depending on how quickly a second one would be added might determine whether they would want a 50 meter or 25 yard pool. Mrs. Henderson said the long term scope of the community center concept is that you might have one or two others across Town in different areas. The community centers are laid out in the parks plan. Ms. Dorrel asked about the outdoor leisure pool. Mrs. Henderson said an outdoor pool costs about $2.6 million and is shown through the consultant's model as positive cash flow. The indoor comes close to breaking even on the recreation side. Mayor Pro Tem Smith asked how much space is needed for outdoor. Mrs. Henderson said about 10,000 square feet plus the support facilities. It can be added to any of the community center concepts. Mrs. Robison would like to see the numbers on the margin of excess need and the cost in lost revenue if there were two venue facilities. Mr. Roseland asked if it is feasible to move forward on the design with two models. Mayor McAlister said if going with the community center plan the questions is whether to bump it up far enough to still qualify for the $10 million or to forego the money and create a facility that would make the community center plan big enough and strong enough to meet most of their objectives. Ms. Dorrel asked if Council is willing to forego the $10 million and work from the baseline to get to what they see as reasonable. Mrs. Robison said the bigger question is the vision and responding to the needs of the community. With aquatics the needs of the community are diverse as is the components of the regional model. Mr. Roseland asked if using the community center concept as a base would be feasible to move forward on the design with two good alternatives-one with the outdoor leisure and one with outdoor training grounds. Mrs. Henderson said the outdoor is not feasible for training and the indoor leisure includes a few extra training and fitness lanes. Mayor McAlister is concerned that the community center concept is not getting enough attention. He suggested staff take the baseline community center concept, add those elements that may better serve council's ultimate objective without making it a regional venue, and provide information on the costs to add those new elements. Ms. Dorrel said asked how it would impact support facilities. Mrs. Henderson said in addition to the baseline community center concept the outdoor leisure pool costs about $2.6 million. Mrs. Robinson said they also need information on the time frame for replicating the community center concept and having a functional second center. Mrs. Henderson said the community centers are in the master plan but building them depends on the funding. If they wait until 2017 it would cost about $24 million of the Town's money for the community center concept if adding the 50 meter pool with 450 seats. Mayor McAlister is more supportive of the community center concept. He thinks a project can be done that has the elements to meet their initial objectives without going to the regional level. Mrs. Robison asked if the north Cary site can hold the elements discussed. Mrs. Henderson said yes. Mr. Roseland said it is important to discuss funding sources and options. Mayor McAlister said that council has a quality of life work session scheduled for October 24. He suggested having another aquatics work session on that date and rescheduling the quality of life meeting. Mayor McAlister directed staff to provide an update on the growth in the general fund and where it is relative to the minimum. Mr. Coleman said they should have the final numbers to provide financing options by October 24th. Staff will provide the following to council at the October 24 work session: " Additional information related to the capacity for hosting events in our area. " Comparative information regarding the training capacity for the various facility models. " Development of a new facility model - Community Center concept with a 50 Meter indoor pool in place of the indoor 25 yard pool. " Show impact of outdoor recreational pool added to the community center concepts. " Discuss Master Plan as related to potential scheduling for the development of future community centers. Mayor McAlister adjourned the meeting at 6:09 p.m.
|