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Minutes of the Cary Town Council Work Session Subject: Comprehensive Transportation Plan Date: July 13, 2006 Location: Conference Room 10035 316 N. Academy Street, Cary, NC
Present: Mayor Ernie McAlister, Council Members Marla Dorrel, Jennifer Robinson, and Nels Roseland; Julie Robison arrived late, and her arrival time is noted in the minutes
Absent: Mayor Pro Tem Jack Smith and Council Member Mike Joyce
Mayor McAlister began the meeting at 4:41 p.m.
The agenda for the meeting follows:
I. Purpose of Comprehensive Transportation Plan (CTP) Update II. Purpose of Work Session III. Review of Cary Resident Survey – Transportation Issues IV. Review of 2001 CTP V. CTP Goals, Objectives and Scope VI. CTP Elements – Tasks and Objectives a. Pedestrian Plan b. Streets Element c. Bike Element d. Transit Element VII. Summary and Questions
Council Member Robison arrived at 4:48 p.m.
Consultants from Kimley-Horne and Associates outlined a power point presentation (attached to and incorporated in these minutes as Exhibit A.) The consultants distributed a survey for council members to complete and return to them. This survey is attached to and incorporated in these minutes as Exhibit B.
The council discussed their goals with regard to the transportation plan:
Mrs. Robinson wants alternatives to using intersections and innovative alternatives to intersection design (i.e., activity center concept plans are built to have alternate routes to avoid intersections). She’d like more grade separated crossings for cyclists and pedestrians.
Mr. Roseland wants better interconnections.
Mayor McAlister wants alternate routes throughout Town and not just at intersections (good connectivity).
Mrs. Robinson stated the Town could continue to add pavement and never have good throughput. She wants to determine if the appearance of the community is more important than adding more lanes.
Mayor McAlister stated if the Town can control the safety aspect of cut-through traffic, then it relieves pressure on other intersections. He stated most people use vehicles, and a lot of emphasis needs to be put on this issue to make it easier while other opportunities continue to be developed.
Ms. Dorrel stated the land use plan can impact how people use their vehicles (i.e., do they have to get in their cars to go to lunch?). She thinks it’s important to have usable sidewalks and bike paths and a fully integrated system with all elements connected in order for the entire multi-modal plan to work. She stated it’s important to keep developing alternatives because the Town can’t pave its way out of traffic congestion. She wants to ensure that people have choices.
Mr. Roseland stated there are nine goals (Exhibit B, item 1). He wants to prioritize them strategically and focus on two or three key goals. He thinks we need other routes, and we’ll need to get the right-of-way and design them. He thinks that mass transit will be more in demand in the future. He wants to focus on convenient, efficient multi-modal and good planning and design.
Mayor McAlister concurred with Ms. Dorrel’s statement about the land use plan providing alternatives to vehicular use (i.e., the Alston development). He wants to focus efforts on areas where alternatives can be best offered (i.e., activity centers, employment centers, etc.).
Council discussion on Cary’s pedestrian system follows:
Mrs. Robison thinks there should be more emphasis on the integration of sidewalk and greenway systems. She thinks the greenway system is often used as an alternative to sidewalks. Her major concern is the greenway system closes at dusk and isn’t lit, is often secluded and doesn’t provide the same level of safety as sidewalks. She thinks we either need to do more to make greenways accessible after dusk or we don’t need to rely on them for access and we shouldn’t expect them to be the only pedestrian access around new developments. She stated sometimes sidewalks aren’t installed because a greenway is provided.
Mrs. Robinson thinks that greenways take advantage of open space to connect neighborhoods. She thinks the southwest plan is being developed as suburban and not rural and should have sidewalks. She wants to look at this plan and change the standards.
The consultant asked if public schools is a concern. The council all replied affirmatively.
Mrs. Robinson thinks school placement can allow a lot of children to ride bikes to school. She stated a good example is the Carpenter School.
The consultant stated there will be a cost to retrofit and fix gaps in the system in order to better connect sidewalks to greenways.
Mayor McAlister stated it will be very expensive to light greenways. Mrs. Robinson suggested looking at the ones that feed into employment centers (i.e., Black Creek to Weston office complex).
Mr. Roseland stated in some cases greenways abut very busy roadways that people can’t safely cross. He suggested a tunnel or bridge in some cases so pedestrians can safely cross these busy roads.
Mrs. Robinson stated multi-use paths are important, and we should include benches and trashcans on these paths.
Mrs. Robison thinks it would be easy to establish criteria for lighting greenways (i.e., high demand uses get lit). She’d like to better understand the demand and additional cost. Engineering director Tim Bailey stated staff will provide standards, define the issues (i.e., a concern about lights in residential areas, etc.) and will provide a recommendation if there is interest among council to formulate a council policy direction.
Ms. Dorrel suggested that it would be beneficial to review the goals of the greenway system, and she stated that the original purpose of greenways may have been for recreation.
Mrs. Robison thinks it’s a good general goal to strive for sidewalks on at least one side of all roads in Cary; however, she thinks the council should be rational about this. Mayor McAlister concurred with being rational, and he stated we don’t need sidewalks on cul-de-sacs, but we do need sidewalks on all roads likely to be used for commuting (collectors, arterials).
Mrs. Robison wants to see a pedestrian access plan for the Weston area, and she added that they are not guaranteed sidewalks on Norwell.
Council discussion on the streets element follows:
Mr. Bailey stated the 2001 transportation plan was based primarily on capacity, and this plan will be different but will not ignore capacity.
Mr. Roseland wants an update of what’s been done since the last plan.
The consultant will look at efficiency, including how to provide better “backdoor” connections to relieve major arterials. The consultant is also looking to develop a stand-alone collector street plan (now it’s part of the thoroughfare plan). A stand-alone plan will allow answers to the constructability question and will allow better alignments.
Mrs. Robinson thinks we need a collector avenue in every neighborhood. The Town shares the burden of cut-through traffic and traffic calming, and we wouldn’t be in this position if we had the collector policy in place.
Mrs. Robinson asked how we pay for this. Mrs. Robinson stated we utilize the LDO. The consultant stated the council should consider possible “taking” issues if the Town requires a developer to build a road that they cannot front. Ms. Andes of the planning staff stated the policy provides average daily traffic levels. Mr. Bailey stated the new plan proposes to build a better distribution of connector roads to distribute traffic.
Council discussion on level of service and at what cost (Florida refers to it as quality of service):
Mr. Roseland wants a four-lane maximum.
Mrs. Robison stated we already have more than four-lanes in certain areas, and she wants to talk about how to improve quality in these areas.
Mrs. Robinson wants to pay attention to problem areas, and she wants to develop solutions at intersections.
Mrs. Robison asked what needs to happen to the current level of service standards. The consultant replied that they need to come back with information about tradeoffs and let the council know what system they will have with particular tradeoffs. Mrs. Robison likes quality of service instead of level of service.
Mr. Roseland asked if we negatively impact the connectivity index if we reduce the number of lanes. The consultant replied that it depends on the land use density and intensity. The consultant stated they’ve actually done a sample with spacing requirements.
Mrs. Robinson stated the Department of Transportation (DOT) standards for spacing of traffic signals and median breaks is problematic, and it results in neighborhoods sometimes being closed off and motorists making U-turn movements.
The consultant stated this brings up retrofitting lanes (i.e., from five-lanes to a four-lane medium divided). He stated the DOT has standards about signal spacing and median openings. He asked for council comments.
Mrs. Robinson thinks four-lane median divided is safer. On Davis Drive neighborhoods are cut off because of the limited access points the DOT allowed. She stated larger vehicles (i.e., minivans) can’t make the U-turn. She stated we need to ensure that the U-turn movements can be done safely. Mr. Bailey stated an issue to consider is median aesthetics vs. safety issues.
Mrs. Robinson thinks the 20-foot median standard is critical, and if that’s not possible, then we need a “bulb out” for U-turns. Mr. Bailey stated this is good direction, and it still may not completely address the problem and there will always be tradeoffs.
Council discussion about the priorities for different levels of streets – locals, collectors, arterials:
Ms. Dorrel doesn’t necessarily believe that cut through traffic is problematic. Mayor McAlister concurred. He sees connectivity as a solution to congestion. Mrs. Robinson concurred but stated that streets must be well designed (i.e., no driveway cut every 15 feet). She stated it’s important to consider children in the neighborhoods. She wants newly developed neighborhoods to have avenues with collector streets off these avenues.
The consultant stated there’s a need to define collector avenues and collector streets in the transportation plan.
Regarding traffic calming, the consultant will help staff develop a toolbox with more alternatives; currently the policy is focused on speed humps. Traffic calming should bring people together.
Mr. Roseland wants a traffic calming program based on data. He stated the Town currently tries to make everyone happy, which results in a mediocre solution that doesn’t provide good safety benefits.
Ms. Dorrel has seen the traffic calming policy destroy neighborhoods. She stated the sidewalk policy is similar. She thinks the Town should take responsibility to make these determinations instead of making neighbors work it out. She stated in doing this, the Town would be financially responsible, and she stated she would expect this because the streets are Town streets.
Mr. Roseland wants narrower streets.
Mrs. Robison stated some communities use on-street parking as traffic calming. Mrs. Robinson stated sidewalks would be necessary.
Ms. Dorrel wants to think about how we educate the public on traffic calming alternatives.
Mrs. Robison wants attention on free-flow right turns and intersection signage options (i.e., only use right lane if making a right turn instead of using the right lane for pass-through and right-turn traffic). She’s in favor of making adjustments in locations where it would make sense.
Mrs. Robinson left the meeting at 6:15 p.m.
Council discussion on the bike element:
The consultant stated it’s important to understand the cost to retrofit existing roads for bike travel. He stated there’s a good chance that Cary is already at the Silver level.
Mrs. Robison is interested in the cost of retrofitting existing roads.
Mr. Roseland stated Fort Collins and Boulder, Colorado have excellent bike facilities. He asked if Cary can have targets (i.e., invest so much a year, grade separated crossings, etc.) to make it easier to connect bikes and greenways. Ms. Andes stated the bike element is road based because greenways aren’t actually commuting routes.
The consultant will look at critical barriers in the community and reasonable capital investments.
Ms. Dorrel thinks it’s important to be strategic to get the most benefit from the investment.
Council discussion on the transit element:
The consultant suggested that council look at where Cary wants to be in the next 20 to 30 years and whether this will require a local or regional network.
Mr. Roseland thinks we need to look at regionalism. Mayor McAlister stated Triangle J’s seamless transportation project is underway. He stated as this settles, Cary will be in a better position to participate.
Mayor McAlister stated based on C-Tran ridership it appears the Town is far from other options. He suggested focusing on improving C-Tran’s ridership and letting that drive future actions.
The consultant asked if the council wants to require more dedicated corridor for future transit options.
Mrs. Robison wants to leave the options open for rail, and she wants to reserve land to keep all options open. The consultant suggested being strategic and well connected.
Ms. Andes stated staff and consultants will summarize all feedback, get questionnaires to the two absent council members and report the objectives back to council. The consultants will continue to define goals and objectives.
Mr. Roseland recently had a conversation with a Morrisville commissioner about conflicts with the Cary and Morrisville plans. He suggested that joint meetings with the two governing boards would be beneficial. Ms. Andes commented that Cary staff meets regularly with adjacent communities about transportation issues.
Mayor McAlister adjourned the work session at 6:30 p.m.
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