Town Council Work Session on the Aquatics Facilities
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

6:30 p.m.

Temporary Council Chambers

Herb Young Community Center

101 Wilkinson Avenue , Cary , N.C.

Web Site:  www.townofcary.org  

The work session was called to order at 4:37 p.m.

Council Members Present: Mayor Ernie McAlister, Mayor Pro Temp Jack Smith, Council Members Marla Dorrel, Jennifer Robinson, Julie Robison, Nels Roseland, Michael Joyce

Consultant:  Scot Hunsaker of Counsilman/Hunsaker & Associates in St. Louis .

Mary Henderson, of the Parks, Recreation and Cultural Resources Department, stated that the purpose of the work session is for staff and consultants Counsilman/Hunsaker to provide the Cary Town Council with information about options available to meet the various goals and needs in the Town of Cary for an aquatics facility. She stated that staff is also seeking direction from Council for which option to pursue in order to set the stage for consideration of the aquatics project within the upcoming capital improvement budget process. Mrs. Henderson added that the Parks, Recreation and Cultural Resources Advisory Board will prioritize the community aquatics needs and provide that information to Council for further deliberation with the capital improvement budget.

Mr. Hunsaker reviewed the process used to gather information for the aquatics project over the last four years. He also provided a brief review of the history of aquatics. (Counsilman/Hunsaker & Associates’ April 2004 Development Options and Enterprise Plan for the Town of Cary Aquatic Facility is attached to and incorporated in these minutes as Exhibit A; Mr. Hunsaker’s power point presentation is attached to and incorporated in these minutes as Exhibit B.)

Mr. Hunsaker stated that aquatic user groups have different needs and requirements, with the primary difference between the groups being water temperature and water depth. He said that competitive athletes prefer cooler water, whereas recreational, lesson, fitness, and therapy groups prefer warmer water temperatures. Furthermore, there are traditionally two fields of play in competitive swimming: two short course concepts and a long course concept.

Ms. Robison asked Mr. Hunsaker to clarify the recreational attendance applied to Option 4 in his presentation.

Mr. Hunsaker stated that there are two types of user groups: the first is a special user group with a contractual relationship where attendance is for a planned activity; the other is general admission where unstructured recreational activities occur. He said that defining a competitive pool for recreational programming is one of management structure and decision-making.

Ms. Robison asked if first year attendance would increase by adding recreation to Option 4.

Mr. Hunsaker replied yes, stating that the possibility exists to include Option 3 with Option 4, which would then increase recreational value for that concept; Option 3 can also be added to Option 1 and the community center concept.

Mr. Joyce asked if the recreational option is the only type to historically make money.

Mr. Hunsaker responded that recreational users use the facility less frequently and are willing to pay more, whereas special user groups will use it more frequently but usually pay less. Therefore, a facility is more likely to operate in a self-sustaining environment with recreational value. He explained that with an outdoor facility the number one cost is labor, whereas for an indoor facility the number one cost is utilities followed very closely by labor. The rule of thumb is that outdoor aquatics have greater propensity to cover operations. Mr. Hunsaker stated that the projections for operations for the first five years assumes a two-and-a-half percent increase in operating costs per year, but not an increase in fee schedule (those are management type issues).

Mr. Hunsaker stated that in his career he has never seen a community with such a well-organized amateur athletic group that is serious about the sport and excels at the sport with such a lack of facilities. He said that the State Capital Sports Center, which is a facility that includes aquatics, fitness and ice to improve fiscal sustainability of the facility, is willing to assist in meeting the Town’s needs; additionally, the Triangle Aquatic Center (TAC) is in the process of developing their own facility and are currently in the design process. However, that facility still will not meet all the needs of aquatic programming in the Town. He stated that a long-term type approach to consider is the community center concept, which provides two smaller facilities for a Town similar to the size of Cary .

Ms. Dorrel asked how partnership structures are used, and for a description of the level of degree of difficulty in achieving a partnership.

Mr. Hunsaker said there are primarily four constituencies for partnerships: a not for profit corporation, private fitness and ice investors, potentially the Town of Cary and potentially Wake County . In addition to creating an organization and a structure to manage the facility on a day-to-day basis and making programming and staffing decisions with a wide variety of investors and constituencies, a financial model can also be created to meet the financial obligations of each of the individual parties as well as the needs of the facility. He said that it can be done, but is not currently in place. In municipal partnerships, the critical component is making decisions in an efficient and timely manner and having a clear understanding of the role of each entity.

Mayor McAlister asked Mrs. Henderson to describe the process the Town used to determine citizens needs and wants for aquatics facility.

Mrs. Henderson stated that Counsilman/Hunsaker was initially hired to do a feasibility study and provide options for an aquatics facility. Additionally, several different focus groups and general public meetings were held. She stated that staff also met with competitive athletes, hospitals, therapy groups, general recreation users, and the Parks, Recreation and Cultural Resources Advisory Board to receive input which resulted in the 50 meter aquatic facility option due to capacity issues. After that, the venue concept was presented with the State Capital Sports Center , and then the TAC option. She said that Counsilman/Hunsaker was then brought back into the process to review partnership options and create other options for the Town of Cary .

Mr. Roseland said that the Wake County Open Space Committee has a proposal involving the TAC to partner with the Town to sell about 5 acres of land to Cary in which Wake County would support the purchase of half with their open space funds and Cary would match half. He asked Mrs. Henderson to explain her understanding of that proposal.

Ms. Henderson said that staff is working with TAC through the design phase to create access to a park and a potential greenway in that area, with the greenway being a higher priority. She stated that staff would like to work with TAC in designing the facility to gain access to that land and for aquatics. She said that the proposal is for open space and, at this time, there are 30 acres immediately adjacent to the TAC’s 20 acre site. Mrs. Henderson said staff will have to evaluate the proposal based on the Town’s current priorities for open space.

There was discussion on whether the 2003 bond referendum would be used to build the facility and what it would mean in terms of a tax increase to the citizens. The outcome of the discussion was that the possibility of a tax increase was made clear at the time of the referendum. However, the Council has no desire to increase taxes. Mr. Roseland added that last year the Council agreed to commit $5 million a year for three years towards the facility.

Mr. Joyce asked if an analysis has ever been done on the use of recreational subdivision pools. Mayor Pro Tem Smith asked if an audit was performed for accuracy on usage estimates.

Mr. Hunsaker responded that his company looked at 14 existing facilities and two in the conceptual stages which is inclusive of neighborhood pools. He said that his firm always performs audits, including economic assessments, and the facility projections are fairly straight forward. He said the fee schedule is what impacts financial sustainability.

Mr. Roseland asked if Impact Athletics’ commitment to a $10 million sports facility in the Preston area, with four 25 meter lanes and other sports amenities, is factored into the analysis.

Mrs. Henderson said it is not.

Mrs. Robison asked which model is reasonable and what mix provides the best opportunity for recreational success. She also asked if recreation and competitive goals can be achieved without heavily subsidizing.

Mr. Hunsaker defined success as fiscal sustainability and maximum flexibility in programming. He stated that the issue is capacity; even if TAC is built the Town will not have enough water surface area to meet the needs of the community. He said that a successful facility would meet the appropriate need for as many residents as possible, as well as meeting financial goals. For a community the size of Cary it would be unusual to create a venue facility without a partnership.

Mrs. Robinson asked Mr. Hunsaker if he were recommending going against Option 4 without a partnership.

Mr. Hunsaker responded that it is not a typical solution for aquatics programming for a community the size of Cary and it is not usually done without a regional commitment.

Mrs. Robison asked if Wake County and the City of Raleigh committing the hotel/motel meals tax would qualify as a regional commitment.

Mr. Hunsaker responded that it would be consistent with the investment based upon the size of the community, with the purpose of making that investment being an economic draw to the area at large benefiting the entire region.

Mr. Joyce asked if phasing was an option.

Mr. Hunsaker said yes, phasing does have advantages of planning for the future and has a lot to do with site selection. He said that master planning future options is an important tool.

Ms. Dorrel said that Council needs to determine goals for aquatics, prioritize them, and weight them according to the various available options.

Mr. Joyce said Council needs to first look at costs. He does not want to have a long-term financial impact on the community. He said that public/private partnerships can work.

Ms. Robison said that there is a documented need for aquatics facilities in the community stretching from recreational to competitive and that Council should consider a long-term view, working with stakeholders in the community, regional partners, and with the private sector to achieve a venue facility.

Mrs. Robinson said the Town needs to pursue a pool system to be used by both competitive groups and recreational users, and building an aquatics facility would benefit the entire region. She said that Council needs to convey to the Raleigh City Council and Wake County Commissions the importance of receiving the funds from the hotel/motel meals tax. She would also prefer to go into some private/public partnership to make the facility a reality. Mayor Pro Tem Smith added that it is also important to hold a public hearing and get feedback from the community.

Mr. Roseland said that the best option is to get staff and Council to consider adding a recreational component on the TAC site and revisit partnership opportunities with them.

Ms. Dorrel said that she is an advocate of the State Capital Sports Center model and Council should look at the optimal model and design. She said that they also need a response from the Wake County Commissioners and the City of Raleigh Council on the Town’s request for the hotel/motel meals tax before entertaining further possibilities.

Mayor McAlister stated that pursing the funding from Wake County and Raleigh does not preclude Council from using other options. He said Council needs to send a strong message to the county stating that a good amount of the hotel/motel meals tax money comes from Cary and a good part should be returned to Cary as well. He said that Council needs to make a firm request for consideration of the return of the funding, knowing that they are on a June or sooner timeline. Mayor McAlister said that the first step would be a resolution formally requesting funds from the County.

Council members agreed to send a resolution to the Wake County Commissioners and the Raleigh City Council formally requesting their support for an aquatics facility in Cary . The Council discussed the content and time line. The resolution will include a statement about the Town of Morrisville ’s support for the aquatics venue, and include a request for funds from the hotel/motel meal tax. (Morrisville and Cary generate about 36 percent of the money going into that tax.) The resolution will also include a specific time frame requesting a definitive response regarding a commitment for the aquatic facility.

Mayor McAlister will contact the mayors of Morrisville and Apex to ask for their support in putting together a similar resolution to be sent to the Wake County Board of Commissioners and the Raleigh City Council.

Finally, it was suggested that Council members personally contact Wake County Commissioners and Raleigh City Council members to convey the importance of the facility to the community.

Mayor McAlister instructed staff to prepare a resolution in time for the next Council meeting to send to the Wake County Commissioners and the Raleigh City Council.

The work session ended at 6:23 p.m.