MINUTES OF THE JOINT MEETING OF THE CARY TOWN COUNCIL AND
CHATHAM COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
March 22, 2004
7 p.m.
Page-Walker Arts and History Center
119 Ambassador Loop
Cary , N.C.

Cary Town Council Present: Mayor Ernie McAlister, Mayor Pro Tem Jack Smith, Council Members Marla Dorrel, Mike Joyce, Jennifer Robinson, Julie Robison and Nels Roseland

Chatham County Commissioners Present: Chairman Tommy Emerson, Vice Chair Carl Outz, and Commissioners Bunkey Morgan and Margaret Pollard

Chatham County Commissioners Absent: Commissioner Bob Atwater

Cary Staff Present: Bill Coleman, Town Manager; Ben Shivar, Assistant Town Manager; Susan Moran, Public Information Officer; Charles Henderson, Town Attorney; Jeff Ulma, Planning Director; Tim Bailey, Engineering Director; Scott Fogleman, Budget Director; and Sue Rowland, Town Clerk

Chatham County Staff Present: Charlie Horne, County Manager; Renee Dickson, Assistant County Manager; Bob Gunn, County Attorney; Keith Megginson, Planning Director; Vicki McConnell, Finance Officer; and Sandra Sublett, Clerk to the Board

Cary Mayor McAlister welcomed everyone at 7:03 p.m. and thanked the Chatham County Board and staff for traveling to Cary for this meeting. Chatham County Commission Chair Tommy Emerson provided the invocation.

Following dinner Mayor McAlister stated that a big issue currently facing the Cary Town Council is the Forest Oaks development. He stated a portion of this development represents people in Chatham County who have come to Cary and requested annexation so that Cary will provide them with utility services in order for them to improve their properties. He stated these people will only be able to improve their properties if Cary provides services. He added that after the Forest Oaks issue is resolved, he foresees that there will be similar requests in the future from Chatham County . He stressed the importance of the two governing boards working together to deal with these issues and to put a plan in place for use as a guide in the spirit of cooperation. He stated he is in favor of better communication among the two governing boards.

Chairman Emerson thanked the Cary Town Council for hosting the dinner meeting. He announced that Commissioner Atwater is not feeling well and could not attend. He stated that it takes a lot of effort to work through problems. He added that Cary and Chatham County are neighbors, and they should avoid future problems to the extent possible. He recognized that both boards will not always agree on everything, but he encouraged conversation and possibly even agreeing to disagree without being disagreeable whenever necessary. He stated that the economic engine continues to drive growth in the region.

Mayor McAlister suggested allowing each elected official the opportunity to talk about what is important to him/her.

Cary Council Member Dorrel thanked everyone for attending the dinner. She congratulated Chatham County on their development fees for schools. She stated of utmost importance to her is a good relationship between both communities. She stated also of high importance to her is environmental issues and how both government bodies work together on these issues. She stated it is important how both groups move forward and that during the process both groups allow people to be heard. She noted that she spent time before the dinner studying some of Chatham County ’s ordinances and plans, and she looks forward to learning more about Chatham County and working together on regional issues.

Chatham County Commissioner Pollard thanked the Cary Town Council for the dinner meeting invitation. She stated the protection of the lake is high on her priority list. She feels that both boards can work together so that development occurs in such a way that protects quality of life. She stated the objectives of both groups is probably the same, even though they may go about meeting these objectives in different ways. She suggested that both groups should clearly identify objectives for the mutual area of interest. She looks forward to both groups working together.

Cary Council Member Robinson wants to hear Chatham County ’s perspective on Cary , specifically the Forest Oaks development. She stated if the Board is concerned with this plan, it is important for her to understand their reasons for feeling this way. She stated both boards should work together to plan for this area. She stated that Cary ’s southwest plan was proposed many months ago, but Cary heard from many Chatham County citizens who were opposed to Cary planning for Chatham County . She stated it was a mistake that the Cary Town Council did not speak directly with the Chatham County Commissioners about the southwest plan proposal. She stated that everyone will be better off if the two boards work together to create a plan for this area instead of both plans stopping at the county line. She stated it is important for Cary to understand Chatham County’s vision, and this can only be accomplished if both groups work together, which will result in a stronger plan for the area.

Chatham County Vice Chair Outz thanked the Cary Town Council for the dinner. He thanked the Town Council for allowing Chatham County to get water out of the intake. He stated they want to continue to do this and possibly even increase it as time goes on. He feels that discussing problems is the only way to arrive at a solution. He noted that most people in Chatham County are opposed to annexation by Cary . He feels that time will solve many problems. Vice Chair Outz suggested that both groups get together on a more regular basis. He stated of utmost importance to him is maintaining safe drinking water.

Mayor McAlister responded that Cary is equally serious about safe drinking water.

Council Member Robison thanked Chatham County representatives for attending this meeting. She stated that both groups should work together to find common objectives. She added that water is a finite resource, and decisions made today will impact future generations.

Chatham County Commissioner Morgan stated he has done business in Cary for 20 years. He thanked the Cary Council and staff for hosting the dinner for the two groups. He applauded the county manager and town manager and their staffs. He stated the two staffs have been communicating for years, and now the elected officials should begin to dialog to follow up on the staff’s conversations. He added that communication has not been good, and he is looking forward to regular meetings with the Cary Town Council – of the entire groups and small group meetings. He stated that communication is critical in order to answer the difficult questions facing both groups. He added that both governments have plans, and the two groups must bring these plans together and give citizens a part in the process. He looks forward to additional conversation with the Cary Council.

Cary Mayor Pro Tem Smith welcomed the Chatham County officials and staff to Cary . He stated the area of mutual interest to both parties is one of the most attractive areas in the country. He stated it is the elected officials’ responsibility to ensure balance in maintaining the quality of life while deciding on development for the area. He feels that planning is the key to eliminating ill will. He stated both parties must confront growth and think about how to deal with it, otherwise, there will be many angry citizens and the elected officials may find themselves being reactive instead of proactive. He admitted that he is embarrassed that this is the first meeting he has had with Chatham County officials, but he takes pride that the staffs have been working together. He urged the elected officials to continue to dialog about issues of mutual interest.

Cary Council Member Roseland thanked Chatham County for attending the meeting. He stated both communities are going through difficult growth pains and both have had to deal with tough development issues. He urged both groups to find a good balance with economic development. He stated that his biggest concerns in this area include: water quality, loss of rural character, and loss of open space. He invited Chatham County to work with Cary to develop a joint water quality plan, a joint open space preservation plan, and a joint farmland preservation plan. He added that both groups have done a lot individually, but even more can be done if both groups work together. He stated the focus of discussion should be balance.

Cary Council Member Joyce stated he has heard from some people in Chatham County who want to be annexed by Cary . He stated that property rights is a very important issue for him. He stated when he votes on the Forest Oaks rezoning and annexation, he will not look at it as tax base or land “grabbing,” but instead he will look at the property rights issue of people wanting to sell their property. He stated that regional cooperation is important to this issue, and the burden falls on the elected officials. He added that he has not yet decided how to vote on the Forest Oaks issue, even though the vote is tomorrow.

Mayor McAlister stated he does not hear adversity among the two boards; instead, he hears much agreement about issues that are very important to both boards. He stated each of the elected officials was elected to deal with issues and not avoid them. He stated the groups can come up with solutions through this type of communication. He stated the important issue is how to move forward on the issues that are important to both groups.

Mayor McAlister stated that the immediate important decision that Cary must make is about the Forest Oaks development. He suggested that Chatham County provide comments about the Forest Oaks development and developments that will be submitted in the future.

Chairman Emerson stated that many Chatham County residents are apprehensive about the Forest Oaks development. He stated that some of their residents want a clear distinction with the county line, but he added that this is not legally defendable under state law. He stated some Chatham County residents have contacted him in favor of Cary providing service to their properties, because Chatham County cannot provide the same service. He stated that other Chatham County residents fear that “one inch will lead to a mile,” which will lead Cary to Jordan Lake . He stated that the Forest Oaks development is Cary ’s decision, but there will be many future decisions after the Forest Oaks decision is made by Cary . He suggested that both groups need a policy or at minimum a “gentleman’s agreement” so that neither group is blindsided and so that people know what to expect. He stated people are more apprehensive of the unknown. He stated a plan is important to the future.

Mayor McAlister stated that Forest Oaks is a request by landowners to voluntarily annex into Cary .

Chatham County Commissioner Pollard asked if Cary has any plans to involuntarily annex into Chatham County . Mayor McAlister responded that the current Cary Council has no plans to involuntarily annex into Chatham County at this time. He stated the voluntary annexation request by the landowners associated with the Forest Oaks development is not the first Cary annexation into Chatham County .

Cary Council Member Robinson stated that in 2001 the Cary Council began discussions of the importance of protecting the water quality of Jordan Lake and agreed that a plan is necessary in order to not have high density development around the lake. She stated that the Cary staff determined that the western area was too big to be considered as one plan, so they broke it into two sections: northwest plan (close to Research Triangle Park ) and southwest plan (closer to Jordan Lake ). She stated there was an agreement among the Cary Council at that time that the higher density development would occur in the northwest area with the southwest area having lower density. She stated Cary ’s goal is that development in the southwest area will maintain the rural character while balancing property rights.

Council Member Robinson stated when the Cary staff prepared the first draft of the southwest plan, it planned for the entire area all the way to Jordan Lake . She stated she agreed with this, because logic indicates that people may want to be a part of Cary to develop in the future. She does not think the county line should be a big factor. She thinks the most prudent thing to do is to plan for this future development. She does not want to face future Forest Oak types of requests without having a good plan in place. She hopes that the Forest Oaks development is the last development that Cary has to deal with that is not a part of a plan for future development.

Cary Mayor Pro Tem Smith that Forest Oaks in its initial stage was too dense to be on the Chatham County side of the development. He stated the plan has been repeatedly tabled. He stated because of the delay, the applicant has revised the plan to take into consideration many of the concerns. He stated the Cary Council respected the public’s feedback, and this feedback forced the applicant to reconfigure and improve the plan. He stated the Cary Council did not meet with the Chatham County officials about the plan, but they did hear the concerns of the people and were rigorous on putting demands on the development in response to these concerns. He stated based on information he received from the Institute of Government , he learned that the county line is not sacred. He stated that 22 municipalities are in at least two counties and some even more. He emphasized that planning is critical.

Cary Council Member Robison stated it is important to note that the Chatham County Commissioners have asked Cary not to cross the county line. She noted it is important to work together to move forward. She is very concerned about the status of the Chatham County resolution opposing any annexation by Cary into Chatham County . She wants to hear more about this from Chatham County officials and understand how to best interpret that in light of the Forest Oaks decision and future decisions. She urged the staffs to find a way to ensure that very early in the planning processes any kind of development project that comes forward that straddles the county line should be reviewed by each governing board for their feedback.

Chairman Emerson stated that he wrote the resolution. He encouraged everyone to read it carefully, because it actually says that Chatham County Commissioners are opposed to the annexation of land in Chatham County by the Town of Cary without consultation with the Chatham County Commissioners. He stated that Cary did not consider them with the Forest Oaks proposal, and the commissioners were perturbed by this lack of consideration. He added that the Town of Cary mailed letters to 1200 of their citizens, and the commissioners did not even know about these letters until they began receiving phone calls and e-mails from their citizens. He assured the Cary Council that the past will remain in the past and he expects that this will not happen again. He stated that Forest Oaks is the immediate issue, but there will be more issues in the future. He stressed that it is mandatory for both groups to reach a joint policy statement or planning instrument so that people are not blindsided and they know what to expect.

Cary Council Member Joyce stated he is on record opposing involuntary annexation. He thinks that the Cary staff has been wrong in their pursuit of involuntary annexation in the recent past, but he thinks everyone has learned a lesson from these experiences.

Cary Council Member Robinson stated that Cary staff had been meeting with Chatham County residents to build a better southwest plan. She stated that staff was correct in inviting the people who would be affected by the plan. She apologized for not including the commissioners. She stated these meetings were never a call for involuntary annexation, but many Chatham County residents misinterpreted this. Mrs. Robinson stated the southwest plan would have given Chatham County residents more protection than not having a plan.

Mayor McAlister stated the Cary Council wants to proceed by working together. He is pleased that he hears agreement among both groups that the past is in the past and that both groups want to work to have better communication. All the Cary Council Members and the Chatham County Commissioners concurred.

Cary Council Member Dorrel stated the Chatham County resolution is still outstanding, and she asked how the Chatham County Commissioners feel about the resolution at the present time. She added it would never be her intention to go against what the commissioners believe to be right and appropriate. She stated she is hearing that this resolution may not still stand today. She stated she is not satisfied with just leaving everything to chance, and she feels that Forest Oaks is a small piece of a much bigger decision. She stated she looks forward to working with Chatham County on the joint policy or joint planning document.

Commissioner Morgan stated that Cary ’s past action has caused an uproar, but he realizes that Cary now has different leadership. He stated that Forest Oaks is a small piece of a larger issue. He added that Forest Oaks is one thing, but Cary should not be doing too much planning in Chatham County . He wants to work with Cary in the planning process. He stated Forest Oaks is pretty much a done deal, because people have requested annexation. He thanked the Cary Town Council for taking action to eliminate Chatham County from the southwest plan immediately after their meeting with residents.

Commissioner Pollard wants to be involved in any planning that occurs in Chatham County . She stated that Forest Oaks is one thing, but planning in the vicinity of the lake is very different.

Chairman Emerson informed everyone present that Commissioner Atwater is very opposed to Forest Oaks.

Cary Council Member Robison stated that many important issues were discussed tonight, and she encouraged the group to think about next steps and to capture the momentum. She suggested that both groups create a small ad-hoc working group of elected officials and key planning staffs.

Mayor McAlister applauded Mrs. Robison for the great idea. He will be happy to work with Cary staff. Chairman Emerson stated he will be happy to work with Chatham County staff and then communicate with Cary .

Mayor McAlister thanked everyone from Chatham County for attending the meeting. He stated some of these issues could have been avoided if both groups had met earlier in the process. He stated it is very important to the Cary Town Council that both groups get along and communicate. He urged everyone to continue this momentum.

Mayor McAlister adjourned the meeting at 8:58 p.m.